I frequently hear people say “Everything happens for a reason.” It’s usually said in the midst of challenging circumstances as a way of trying to make some sense of the situation. But is this really true?
Does everything happen for a reason?
I posted this question on the Live Intentionally Facebook page which prompted a fascinating conversation with people with all kinds of diverse views about God and the universe weighing in. I love it!
Clarification
Following that conversation, I realize one clarification is necessary: when we say “everything happens for a reason” we’re not talking about simple, physical cause and effect. We’re talking about a higher power orchestrating events for a reason. If a hammer slips out of my hand and lands on my toe, we all understand there are physical reasons for that – my hand was sweaty, gravity pulled it down, etc. That’s not at issue here. The question is whether God (or some other being/force) wanted the hammer to hit my toe for some greater purpose.
As you can already tell from the title of this post…
I don’t believe everything happens for a reason.
If we say “Everything happens for a reason” that would indicate that God (or some other all-powerful person/force) intends for everything to happen that happens. That is just not consistent with what I know from the bible or from personal experience.
First of all, the God of the bible (the God I know and follow) is a God of order. He created systems that govern the laws of nature. He does not have to choose where the planets will be every moment of every day; He created gravity to do that. He does not have to choose where and when it will rain every moment of every day; He created weather systems to do that.
Certainly there is both biblical and experiential evidence to show that God intervenes in world events. God can and has stopped the sun in its place (Joshua 10:13). God can and has caused the start and end of droughts (Haggai 1:11).
But if it rains, should I be saying, “I guess God didn’t want my son to play baseball today?” Or on a grander scale, “I guess God didn’t want the Patriots to win the Superbowl this year?” Does God have some greater purpose behind the fact that we’re out of bagels and I had an English muffin for breakfast?
If so, why create systems at all? It just doesn’t seem consistent with who God is and how He operates.
Certainly there is lots of room to debate the degree to which God is actively intervenes in day to day events. Sometimes – yes. Every time – no. Sometimes the hammer falls on your toe just because your hand was sweaty.
Second, we as human beings have free will. We can choose good or evil. All is not decided for us. If I punch you in the nose, it is not “God’s will” for you to have a bloody nose but mine.
God is all-good. He is not capable of perpetrating evil. He is also all-powerful and has the capacity to intervene in world events when he wants to. But he often he chooses not to leaving us to deal with the natural consequences of our actions both good and bad.
The good news, however…
is that the bible tells us in Romans 8:28
In all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Even though God doesn’t cause bad things to happen to us, He is able to use all circumstances – no matter how bad – for our good if we allow him. The same power of God that raised Jesus from the dead is capable of healing our physical, emotional and relational wounds. And often in his infinite wisdom, God uses us to bring comfort, guidance and healing to others who are going through the same bad circumstances we experienced.
So, when I or someone I know faces challenging circumstances instead of saying, “Everything happens for a reason,” I choose to say, “This is tough, but God is powerful and loving enough to use even these circumstances to bring about good.”
What do you think? Do you think “everything happens for a reason?” Why or why not?
My thoughts exactly.
Yes there is a cause and effect to life.
No God, is not behind everything that happens to us. It has been said we have three enemies- the devil, the world and ourselves.
God is good ALL the time.
And that is why… YES! He can redeem it all.
Amen! Preach it sista!
I think that things may happen for a reason but that being said that doesn’t mean everything and it means that God has something greater planned for us.
Just because something happens doesn’t necessarily mean it is God’s plan but rather we are beings in search of Truth.
And each individual has their own special relationship and journey with God so in that while some things happen for a reason for some people it doesn’t mean they happen for a reason for others.
It’s all about how we perceive, God wants great things for all who love him but that doesn’t mean the absence of suffereing, however through it God can use it to bring about redemption, and that is good enough reason for life itself 🙂
Isaiah 45.6-7
Chew on that verse for a while.
But Yes, God is good, and in his enourmous grace and mercy, he redeems his elect. Though I will say that even in his JUDGEMENT that might seem BAD to some, is a GOOD thing.
Exactly!!! So simple yet thousands of books over centuries have been written to complicate this simple truth.
I don’t understand why that is such a hard concept for so many to grasp! Seriously!
The problem of evil really isn’t a problem at all in my mind…simple…man has free will and most suffering is done by his own hand…his own inhumanity to man. We also have the fact that the world’s system…run by man…is under the influence of the devil who takes him captive at his will. The Earth itself operates under the curse from the time of Adam but the systems still operate…gravity etc…just not directly supervised by God so to speak. we live in a post paradise world so the systems are not operating in a perfect state. Even King solomon says that random chance happens.
In conclusion…I ask my friends who believe that God is in control of everything that happens….”does God cause people to rape, murder, steal and all the other evil things they do?”. Clearly..NOT.
Thanks for the practical voice of reason!
Ken
🙂
I agree with you that not everything happens for a reason. I see no evidence of this as a Biblical principle and as you point out it does not fit the character of God as a God of order. When applied to things like the death of a child or to someone suffering physical harm at the hand of another, the idea that everything happens for a reason paints an unpleasant picture of the nature of God.
I think the idea of everything happening for a reason has become one of those things which is accepted because enough people have said it without challenge, like the idea that God helps those who help themselves.
Thanks Dennis. I think you’re right. It’s one of those things people say in difficult times when they don’t know what else to say. It’s really not appropriate to disagree or debate it “in the moment.” Better to think it through now.
very valid point, and I agree to a certain extent. the little things (like the hammer falling on your foot) may not be the exact design of the almighty one but i do believe that there could be a reason for that to happen. the beauty of it is you never know why. the injury could cause you to go in and get a bandage and while youre gone a tree could fall in the exact place you were hammering the nail, but i admit thats stretching it a little far. I guess my point is everything does happen for a reason in that it triggers another action that could – in any situation – be life changing and something that is a result of Karmic balance being kept. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence
Micky, you touched on one of the big challenges with this issue… if we believe that God can and does intervene in the events of this world but he doesn’t control every little thing, it is very difficult to assess just how actively involved God is. For all I know in my lifetime so far, God may have intervened a hundred times or more to prevent my death.
Sure. It really is an over-used statement by both religious and non-religious alike. But hey, everything happens for a reason could maybe be, “everything happens for a reason to give God the glory.’ Now the argument could go back to all sorts of points you brought up but ultimately, whether originally ordained by God or not, it can be turned into ‘…to give God glory.’ I guess it’s the same spin on your last sentence, ‘…to bring about good.’
Personally, I don’t like the phrase but that’s just me but maybe it’s just because like you said before, not everything happens for a reason. In my opinion that can be a hard dose to swallow. I think it’s a feel good message. A kind of mental obstacle or mind trick to tell themselves or others, to get them through a situation. Granted, so can saying, God has a plan for this. lol I guess either one can cause a challenge because as humans we just want to figure things out. Make sense??
Good write up.
>>I think it’s a feel good message. A kind of mental obstacle or mind trick to tell themselves or others, to get them through a situation.
Kyle, I agree, but it’s really not necessary. Instead of finding comfort in the idea that someone or something is causing the bad things in our life, it’s much more empowering know that regardless of the circumstances God can bring good from them.
I saw you pose this question yesterday and didn’t have time to respond. My first thought was: So God would allow someone to have an affair, an abortion, etc, because He had a reason for it? He may use the circumstances caused by our poor choices to help and minister to others, but I don’t think He would “create” those circumstances because He has some grander plan.
As I was reading this fabulous post, what came to mind was: So God’s not a micro-manager? 🙂
LOVE this post!
>>So God’s not a micro-manager?
Wow, it’s crazy you would say that because I actually cut that exact sentence out of the post before publishing.
Love this post, and the clarification of the question. I have walked through difficult situations where God did bring good from bad, because I prayed for his goodness to come through the situation as you point out. When a turn of a situation would look dark, I would say, God is my only source! That was my Mantra over and over, until I truly believed that no one had more power over the situation than God. Only Good came through the bad and I walked out stronger and with greater faith.
That’s awesome Michelle! Thanks for sharing the story. It’s great to hear how you trusted God to work through the difficult situation and God came through.
It doesn’t, people just want to believe that it does in order help get past difficult and challenging events in their life. It’s exactly the same as religion.
Emma, I appreciate your comment, but I don’t think it’s fair or accurate to lump all “religious” people together on this issue. There’s quite a diversity of thought among us on this issue.
BTW, some day I’d like to hear more about why you’re so anti-religion. Most people who don’t believe something is true are apathetic about it, but I sense some real antagonism on your part which suggest perhaps there’s some history there?
It has been said (and I cannot recall the source), that “religion is the opiate of the people.” As my address implies, I’m still seaeching at age 55, and I sometimes wonder if I’ve been the victim of the cleverest hoax by growing up in and still being a prisoner of Catholicism. This religion defies all logic and rational thinking, yet it retains its grip on me (and no doubt countless others) by weaving a virtually mystical spell through our reasoning. We’re just scared enough to fear disbelief because of the great “what if” factor. WHAT IF the plethora of rules, regulations, and yes, may I have the audacity to say superstitions ARE for real? For every action, there is an equal and OPPOSITE reaction?
Too heavy. Time for a latte lite. Carry on!
My general thought on the matter of why an omnipotent, omniscient God would allow horrible things to happen is that it allows truly good people to do truly good things with no thought of compensation.
Trish, your experience with Catholicism seems to be marked by rules, guilt and manipulation. If that’s accurate, I’m sorry to hear that.
Unfortunately, that is true for many Catholics (and other factions of Christianity), and it really ticks me off! Jesus came to this world to free us from guilt and manipulation and yet many church leaders have picked up those very same tools of the Evil One and wield them in His name. It’s shameful!
>>My general thought on the matter of why an omnipotent, omniscient God would allow horrible things to happen is that it allows truly good people to do truly good things with no thought of compensation.
Trish, I think that is very insightful. There’s nothing more meaningful than to do God’s work by serving others. The brokenness in this world makes that possible.
In respect of the quote, according to sources found on the web, it is a paraphrase of Karl Marx who said:
“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people”
Quite a bit happens because of our personal choices (and those around us)
The age old question of pre-destiny vs. freewill is always a source of debate amongst both Biblical Scholars and Secular Scholars alike. How does and omnipotent God not know what actions we will take given choices? If God already knows the outcome, where does freewill come in?
I can find no evidence that God intervenes in every aspect of our lives. Freewill allows us to make these choices and we are stuck with the consequences, either good or bad. When bad things are allowed to happen to us, either through our actions or other’s actions, we cannot say it is God’s fault. We can only seek wisdom and guidance in dealing with these situations. To look for the good in every situation is a positive trait. To say “everything happens for a reason” eliminates personal responsibility and freewill.
Well said, Dana!
Q: Do you believe in predestination or free will?
A: Yes!
Good thoughts, Dana!! Hope I did not simplify things too much.
I should admit, I do use that expression from time to time too. But I strongly agree with you Paul that NOT everything happens for a reason. Sometimes saying and stating this we just justifying our own unwillingness (laziness, ignorance – you name it) to be more proactive. It is easier to find a reason for NOT acting or NOT doing something rather that simply putting an extra effort to succeed.
Cheers!
True Alex. I’ve heard people say “everything happens for a reason” when they fail at something and what they’re implying is that God wanted them to fail and was actively working against their success for some reason.
I’m not saying that can’t happen – there are examples in scripture where God thwarted people’s plans – but more often than not we are our own worst enemy.
Hmm…great article.Funny that people see God as such a distant source.Since we all come from God and are a part of God,we are all far more responsible then realized.I don’t buy everything written in the bible as it was written and rewritten hundreds of years later but understand it as a symbolism of what life has to offer.If everyone could see life a a preplanned opportunity with choices,life could be simpler.Think as though going to school.You plan to go through it but at the time, it is your choice whether you pay attention or not,work hard or slack,grumble about it or appreciate it,etc.It is planned and happening for a reason but do you choose to recognise it or ignore it ?An all loving God does not create evil…humans do that with free will.Life is an opportunity to play in the mud.Do you rinse off the dirt and gain spiritual strength from it or do you choose to keep the dirt and discomfort as a shield ?We were all created equal and in that we all have equal choices on how to interpret life.We can learn from situation A or situation B BUT it’s not the situation that’s important but our reactions that are !
Thanks Dee. I’ll save the conversation about the credibility of the bible for another time. 🙂 But I believe what you’re saying fits with the old adage “Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.”
Two philosophical problems with the proposition you are putting forth:
1) If God is not the First Cause of certain effects in the world, we must conclude that there are some effects in the world that are either a) uncaused, or b) caused by another First Cause. Either of these answers if admitted, destroy useful apologetic arguments (such as the Cosmological Argument for the Existence of God).
Furthermore, both alternatives leave open too many questions. In the case of a), how can there be effects that are completely uncaused in a world governed by an Omnipotent God? In the case of b), who or what is this other First Cause?
2) Your apparent solution, that God only puts systems in place, which without regard to reason birth certain effects, does not seem to fit with the concept of an Omnipotent, Omniscient God.
For example, when God set the “system” in place that led to the hammer falling on my foot, did He not know that the system would cause such a thing? (Notice I said “would”, not “could”) If not, such a god is hardly Omniscient.
If He did know that the system would bring forth this cause, yet still put the system in place, I would venture to say that He is the First Cause of the outcome, and very knowingly so.
To anticipate a common objection, this conclusion does not make God the “author of evil”. God would only be so if 1) human responsibility didn’t exist (and biblically, we know it does) 2) if God had set a Law in place that stated that if He were the First Cause of all effects, in conclusion He would be the author of evil, yet no such Law exists. Besides, who is above God to judge Him as such a thing?
Lastly, I wonder if you have considered this passage in Isaiah 45, and what you think about it:
5 “I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 “so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
men may know there is none besides me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 “I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.
P.S.: Good call on not responding through Twitter. 🙂
P.P.S.: For those of us who may not know me, yes, I am a Christian. 🙂
Hey Alex, thanks for your very thoughtful reply.
I wouldn’t say God _only_ puts systems in place. I believe God has created systems and for the most part allows those systems to do their thing, but at the same time he has the power and will to intervene according to his wisdom.
I also think the bible makes it clear that God is both omnipotent and omniscient, so yes God put in place the systems that were involved in bringing the hammer to my toe and he knew when he created those systems that it would happen. But that doesn’t mean there is necessarily some grand purposeful plan behind the incident. Gravity has been “responsible” for a gazillions events in the history of the universe. I think many of them were known but “unintended” consequences.
Does that make sense?
What about: Everything that happens is meant to happen?
Tareq, meant to happen by who or what?
Paul,
Ages-old discussion; for obvious reasons. We probably choose what side to be on based on our circumstances, outlook, and experiences; and in my case my opinion has shifted in my life.
Can we have differing opinions and still both be amazed at God’s grace? Is it plausible that God’s plan allows for differing opinions? If I disagree with your take, can I still bring you comfort and bandage your foot from the hammer accident without judgement?
I’m sure it is the demographics of your audience, but at least we are not debating God; just some of the details.
I can give a room of 15 children the same paper, paints, and crayons. Why do I get 15 unique results? Why does that difference bring us joy?
Hey Pete, certainly we can have differing opinions. This issue is not a black and white issue with two sides. The issue is the extent to which God is intentionally intervening in the events of this world – it could range nothing to everything and everywhere in between.
Do you think everything happens for a reason?
I’d love to talk with you more offline. If you’ve got a few minutes after the worship service, come see me.
I think everything happens for a reason; usually because I was not paying attention to the directions 🙂
I like to think of it like this: We can find a reason for everything that happens!
I do not agree. When the universe(God, Divine mind, whatever you call it) takes control, you have no choice. I have personal experience that causes me to say this. I think most days are orchestrated by us, but certain events that control destiny are powered by a supernatural force.
Thanks Neva. You just said most days are orchestrated by us but some events are orchestrated by a supernatural force. Does that mean that some things happen for a reason, not everything?
I have a chronic and severe illness, and I hear this phrase all too often. I belong to an online support group for my rare disease and I sometimes struggle to defend my faith to non-Christians who wonder how a loving and omnipotent God could allow so much suffering, both personally and in the world. I think the statement “everything happens for a reason” is trite and way over simplified. It often makes me upset when people say this to me. Do I believe that God has a grander plan and purpose in my life that I will never understand with my human mind…yes! (1 Corinthians 13: 9-10) Do I believe that God can use any circumstance, no matter how bad for his glory and our good…yes! (Romans 8:28) But do I believe that God caused me to be sick, lose my job, have to drop out of school, go into debt, be in constant pain, etc…no I do not. (Ecclesiastes 9; James 1: 12-18) God is good! I don’t have an explanation for why bad things happen in our lives. I can speculate, and lots of people have offered good reasons; there is evil in the world, we have free will, we don’t know what would have happened had a certain experience not occurred. But I trust that one day, when I reach Glory, God will reveal His plan, but I have a feeling that then it won’t matter at all.
That’s wonderful, Alicia! Thanks for sharing your story with us, including the challenges you’ve faced, your faith and your experiences dealing with the “everything happens for a reason” phrase. I love your perspective!
It all has reason, we are for most part in control, but certain events are not necessarily in our control. But sure everthing has reason even if we are the orchestrators. 🙂
I think God gives those of us that are the strongest, the toughest parts of life, i.e. illness etc.
I also think that what we perceive as bad or evil is just that, a perception. We mourn the death of a loved one…. but what if death is like the caterpillar to the butterfly? One does not know what lies after our death in this body.
Everything a reason.
Thanks Neva. I think it’s a good point that sometimes what we perceive as bad is really not. But are you suggesting that nothing is evil? Was the holocaust not evil? Did it happen for a reason?
While I certainly agree with the vast problems of statements like “everything happens for a reason,” I think your proposed solution that God can certainly always intervene but chooses not to can be just as problematic. In fact, you brought up the test case for that in your comment regarding the holocaust. To believe that God can intervene and choose not to is to say that on balance the holocaust will in fact lead to more good then harm. Otherwise, how could a good God allow it to happen when God had the ability to prevent it.
So long as the concept of a god that can choose to intervene remains central, it diminishes from the idea that that same God is always good.
I prefer the answer proposed by Ty Inbody in The Transforming God that God acts by being the supreme influencer. God is constantly willing us to make the best possible choice and will never give up on us. But, a loving relationship is not marked by coercive control. Thus, God cannot overrule a given person’s choice but can simple then try to influence all involved to the next best possible outcome. (Obviously I’m trying to condense a book length treatment to three sentences so forgive the many logical leaps).
In other words, we can affirm that not everything happens because of the whim of a omnipotent God. But our problem remains when we retain the concept of a God who can choose to manipulate. The example of Jesus is I think the purest example of transformation, of both individuals and the world, through example and relationship. When Jesus dies on the cross, we are transformed not by the flexing of his divine power, but by the overwhelming example of his relational, non-manipulative love.
Jared, I think that’s a great point. It’s actually something I was thinking about over the last couple of days. God is much more interested in restoring our relationship with him and transforming our hearts than changing our circumstances. So, while I see plenty of evidence that God can and has intervened in the events of this world when He sees fit, He much more frequently works in the hearts of people, and works through those people who are willing to follow Him.
I agree, I do think that when situations happen to us, they will bring us closer to Him. No matter what is happening to me, I always see Jesus on the cross, the pain, agony he endured for us. Nothing, I mean nothing that happens to us on this earth can compare to that. I lost my daughter, He is now taking care of her, after that happened I was able to help other parents who had lost their children. They knew I understood their loss because I had gone through the same situation. We can choose to place blame all we want, but if we could all be grateful for the gifts that we receive on a daily basis no matter what is happening during our day, we will all be better off. Great post! Lisa
Lisa, thanks for your comment. I can’t imagine what it must be like to have lost a child, but you have a wonderful perspective on it. I’m glad that with God’s help you’ve been able to help others.
I too have been struggling with a chronic illness for the past 12 years. I am a wife, a mom and a writer. I believe that God has a plan and a purpose for everyone (jer 29:11). I’m not saying that when bad things happen it is the “Lord’s will” but as others have previously mentioned good things come from bad situations.
I can look down the path my life has taken and see how God used my moments of struggle to shape me into who He wants me to be, so that I may go out and do His will. How can I mininster to others suffering from chronic illness if I haven’t experienced it myself? It’s all about choosing to glorify the Lord because He is made perfect in my weakness.
Whether everything happens for a reason? I’m not sure, but I know that for me, I am exactly where the Lord wants me to be doing what he’s called me to do. And I wouldn’t be here if I hadn’t had some struggles forcing me to grow along the way.
Nicole, thanks for sharing a bit of your story with us. Way to go on trusting God and seeing the good he is doing through your difficult circumstances!
Interesting discussion. Heard that phrase my whole life from my parents. This is my take: *Borrowed from Larry Crab’s “The Pressure’s Off” … “There are no guarantees. Except God’s presence through [the Madness of] it all.” The madness is what I refer to of all the aspects of daily life that are out of our control. So why bother than? Because, the gift is not all the details. The gift is knowing that you don’t have to walk through the details…alone. He will be with us. That is the promise. And the most precious blessing of all. The Blesser himself!
Raj, thanks for that perspective. When we come to realize it’s not about the blessings about about our relationship with the Blesser, that changes everything.
i agree, the people who died in the twin towers did not die FOR A REASON…and if you think so you are inhuman, mindless,disrespectful,dumb and insensitive…many subjects and events debunks this stupid overused internet quote that people only say when they want to blame their failures/achievements on god. have you noticed only prosperous or white college educated kids say this stupid phrase?
TJ, thanks for the comment, but no, I’ve seen people of all ethnicities and classes use this phrase.
I’ve heared the phrase used time and time again in many situations, or variations “it was ment to be” being one of them. I do believe that some events,, even bad ones if they ultimately lead to something good do happen for a reason, though not always. If I stub my toe against the bed, it means that 1. I should stop being vain and wear my glasses and 2. Turn a light on when I get up at night. It’s not because it’s gods will. Though if an individual is placed through a difficult time and emerges the other side unscathed but enlightend and a better person then I do believe that it is gods will. I’d like to share a personal story with you. Around 2 years ago I left my old job and took up a new position in a small team. From day 1 the people I worked with would not speak to me, unless they had too, they increased my work load(which didn’t bother me as I like to be busy) but at the extent that their work load decreased and they finished work early. My job involved driving round visiting families it deprived areas of my city and areas with high rates of violent crimes, but no one contacted me to see if I was safe. Eventually after around 12 month it took its toll and I ended up depressed and having panic attacks when I went out alone. But something good has come out of it for me. In my pre teen years I took my faith and belief in god as any child would. As I got older I let people’s opinions of my beliefs influence me, and as such let my faith slide, and didn’t pay attention to it as I should. But during the time I have been away from work for want of a better word ‘ill”, I have re-read my bible, I have rediscovered my conection with my faith. I feel more at peace with myself inside, I know I don’t need to prove my self or justify why I believe in God, to any one other than God himself. I also have stopped trying to be better than others at everything I do, I work to the maxim that the only person I need to be better than is my self. I truly believe that the events at work happens for the purpose of helping me rediscover my faith in Christianity
Simon
Hi Simon, thanks for sharing part of your wonderful story! I don’t think God caused your coworkers to treat your poorly, but He did allow you to go through those circumstances. And in those circumstances God was there with you, you turned to Him and experienced God in a new way. It’s a great example of how God can work all things for good for those who love Him.
Thanks, I think your reply express what I was trying to say, I usual end up using 30 words where 5 would have done 🙂
Simon
Paul, Do you think whatever is meant to happent will happen.
for-example does God, chose for you from the day you are born, who your meant to married
or plan your life how is gone end….
Hi Alex, I think God provides us with opportunities, guides us to those opportunities and gives us free will to choose those opportunities or not.
For example, God may connect a person with an excellent person for them to marry, but God is not going to force them to get married. Either person could mess up or abandon the relationship.
And I don’t think it was ever meant for anyone to be abused, raped, beaten, robbed or killed. So, in that respect, no I don’t think “whatever is meant to happen will happen” necessarily with any individual.
However, I do believe that God’s kingdom will come and his will will be done. If one person chooses not to follow God’s call on his life, God will call another. If one godly leader is killed, God will raise up another.
What do you think?
Paul, I do agree,what you have said Bud they are so many things which it is not easy to explain, I have read the Bible few times just to make sure I will understand better they are so-many things writing in parables which it makes very hard to understand.
I know that God have given as the most precious thing which is free will to chose ..
I always meant the right path.
But I have seen some parts on the Bible Which since the day you are born God have written your destiny like when your gone die if your gone have children or not if your gone become reach or not etc. So don’t matter how hard you try is not gone happened till the right time comes or not at all. Than again we always think is not meant to be or will happened because is meant to happened, or it was the will of God. Or everything have a reason behind if it is so by whom,
is the reason controlled … I don’t really know but seems to me a very broad topic and is not easy to explain.
Whats your opinion ?
Hey Alex, thanks for replying back. It is a complex, mysterious topic.
>>I have seen some parts on the Bible Which since the day you are born God have written your destiny like when your gone die if your gone have children or not if your gone become reach or not etc.
Where? Can you reference the specific verses you’re talking about?
Thanks Paul, I have to check because i don,t remember if it was in old testament, or the new testament as you know yourself the Bible has 2052 pages takes a lot of time to found the verses i’m not gone promise right now if I find the time i will.
Perhaps if you remember part of the verse or a phrase you can google it and find it. I believe it’s very important to look at the specific text because it would be tragic to base our view of God on something we thought we remember reading and have it be inaccurate.
Two rather well known verses you may be thinking of are…
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. -Jeremiah 29:11
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; -Jeremiah 1:5
Don’t worry I will find the verse Paul.
Just something to let you know everything is planet by God even the air you breath.
for time been it concludes what I have said.
God sovereignty does not diminish man’s freewill. God never twists anyone’s arm into heaven. God is all knowing of the past, present, and future. He alone knows what we will do. One example is that there are said to be over 600 prophecies in the Bible regarding Jesus Christ. God alone is able to know the future and the means to bring about what He desires to come to pass. God knew that I would be saved and come to a saving faith in Christ. The very fact that you are reading this may be an indication that He is or has called you for salvation. You have freewill to either reject Him or to accept this saving grace. Either way, He knew it, He planned it, He purposed it, He desired it, and He predestined the very thing that you are now reading. My prayer is that you could come today to the Savior and not reject the free give of His grace that is found only in Jesus Christ. You are free to choose it or you are free to reject it. The point is that the will of God will be done either way.
God had planned you even before you were born or before you were in our mother‘s womb (Jer. 1:4).
He planned things for you in the future before the earth or time existed (I Cor. 2:7).
He had made plans for your life to give you His grace before you were born (Gal 1:15).
He chose you and called you to redemption to be saved and be made holy (Eph 1:4).
He chose you before your birth to bless you and save you through Christ (Eph. 1:3-4).
He planned your adoption prior to your birth (Eph. 1:5).
And according to His good pleasure, revealed the secrets things of God to you (Eph.1:9).
Is saying God know and Plans everything for you, so the free will is for few things but not for everything ……
Thanks Alex. Those verses certainly reveal that God plans and prepares many things for us. But everything? I don’t see that stated in any of the verses.
How much of the circumstances we deal with on a daily basis are the result of our sin or the sin of others? Certainly God knows the future, even the future circumstances caused by sin, but do you think He is planning and causing those things to happen? Divorce, addiction, abuse and things like that?
Yes because of believing in false Gods etc
Gen 2:16-17 “And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are FREE to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Deuteronomy 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 “in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 “But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 “I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong [your] days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live.”
Right. So, how does that fit with “free will is for few things but not for everything”
Let me say that I am feeling that you have no free will and that no one alive or dead has or has ever had free will? I do not mean that free will that we have means that we are not chosen or that He does not save us…we have free will to be able to obey or disobey…we can be saved and still live in sin but God will discipline every child of His. God has elected us, predestined us, but we still have choices to make but this free will is not that we are free to choose or reject our election. The free will I speak of are non-salvation issues? Does this make sense? For example:
John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” I know Christians, even pastors, who battle pornography, some Christians who smoke pot, but they battle these addictions and have free will to either get help and quit or keep falling into these sins. If the are the elect of God, then God certainly called them and they are NOT free to not have come to faith in Christ. See what I mean?
Alex, thanks for clarifying. I don’t believe God predestines some people for heaven and others for hell. I believe God gives everyone the opportunity to repent, receive forgiveness and follow Him. “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” -Romans 1:20
I don’t want to get into a debate about free will vs predestination here, though.
If people have freedom to choose on non-salvation issues, then I don’t think we can say “whatever is meant to happent will happen” on those issues.
This was the community that Paul addressed as the “saints who are in Corinth” (1:2) but they had free will to be living carnally. Does this make sense?
Thank you Paul, for today i think is enough.
Jared’s last sentence touches me everytime I read it, so that’s why I’m posting at this spot. Perhaps unrelated is that struggling with these issues nearly has me at a loss as to how to pray. I don’t want things in my life to just be the natural consequence of people’s decisions (Context: I’m looking for a job). I want God to be orchestrating everything. I have experienced a lot of spiritual growth since I lost my job, but at this moment I’m confused about what I can expect from Him and what & how to give him glory. I feel like we Christians brain wash ourselves into believing he’s more active than he is. If things go “right” we thank him for answered prayer. When bad things happen, it’s because he wants to use it for good. Maybe it’s more accurate to look at most things as a result of systems as you say. I do believe God gave us cause & effect to be able to discern between truth/falsehood & even good v. evil in some cases.
Mendy, that’s an interesting point. But I don’t think there’s a problem with either thanking God when our prayers are answered or believing God wants to use difficult circumstances for our good.
If I’m a farmer and I pray that God would provide rain for my crops and it rains, does it matter whether the rain came because God supernaturally blew rain clouds over my fields or from a “naturally occurring” weather system? God created the water cycle, so we have him to thank either way.
Is the creation of the water cycle, with all the massive clouds and spectacular sunsets, snow-covered forests, beautiful waterfalls and awe-inspiring glaciers any less magnificent than God blowing some rain clouds over a farmers field? I don’t think so.
And I believe that God wants to use all circumstances – good and bad – to grow our relationship with him. He doesn’t have to orchestrate circumstances to provide us with growth opportunities.
So, whether God provides you with a job today or a year from now, He is at work in your heart. Praise Him for that! And whether that job comes from some crazy circumstances with God’s fingerprints all over them or a kind boss who is God’s handiwork, either way you have God to thank.
What do you think?
Ok Paul, check this one
id=140&page=Predestination%2C+Election+and+Free+Will+in+God
http://www.heavenshelpers.org/?id=140&page=Predestination%2C+Election+and+Free+Will+in+God
Everything happens, BECAUSE OF A REASON! Example – I, over spent on my credit card. Now, I’m in debt and praying for the Lord’s guidance to spend wisely. I’m in debt ( it happened because of a reason) Reason – I, over spent on my credit card.
One more example – A girl in my neighborhood was killed two days after graduation. It happened for a reason. Reason – she was hit by a drunk driver. Why did she die, because of the person who decided to drive drunk got behind the wheel of a car and hit her. God is not cruel, and sought her out to die and no it wasn’t “her time”. Yes, God can control all, but that is not what he choose to do. The rain falls on the just and the unjust.
Everything DOES happen for a reason. It’s not just a saying. There is a bigger energy and force behind every event in life. You can call that energy God or whatever you want but he is in control of it all.
That being said, we are in control of how we direct our lives b/c God is in each and every one of us, therefore we have the same abilities as God to manifest and attract events into our lives, through our thinking.
Thanks for sharing your perspective Ariana. May I ask what it’s based on? It sounds like it’s based on Buddhist or New Age philosophy. Just curious.
There are some things in what you said that don’t seem logical to me. How can God/”bigger energy” be in control “of it all” and yet “we are in control of how we direct our lives?” Two entities can’t both be in control of something unless one of them yields control to the other.
Going back to the example in the post, if you were to punch me in the nose, do think it’s the will of God/”bigger energy” for me to have a bloody nose or you? And if it’s you, are you orchestrating all the events of my life according to a grand plan you have for my life?
Ok.. I keep drinking every day.. so according to some of you ‘God’ wanted me to be an alcoholic. look up the history of alcoholism. in the 70’s they would lock you up and it would either be ‘your crazy send him to a crazy home’ or you would die.. Just look up the info it’ll make sense… having said that there is ONE evil Lucifer the cause for the system of things we live in today. Why is it that our hardest attempts to make world peace, healthier products, etc, always fail? We live in a system of things orchestrated by him. Why is it that the world is getting shittier and shittier, despite all the ‘organizations’ that were founded to help out a ’cause’ yet those organizations are mostly corrupt, stealing your money that was meant to feed a hungry mouth.(Just an example). Also why is it the ’causes’ we so dearly fight for end up either being corrupt again or lost. People, we live in a world controlled by our biggest enemy. And he’s doing a Damn good job at it. If you all were to Really look up things,for example things you use in your everyday life, a simple thing like a water bottle, look at where it came from how it came into your possession and what is really in it. You will be surprised to find an organization of corruption within that. So when you eat go to the store find vegetables and fruits that are out of season but for ‘some’ reason you have them conveniently there for you, you will always find corruption behind them. So back to what some of you were saying, it’s ‘Gods or a Higher Power’s will’ to have a system that WILL one day end the human race, WTF!
Miguel, that’s an interesting perspective, but where’s your evidence that organizations doing good are mostly corrupt, that satan is winning or in control. I see lots of evidence of good being done around the world and I’m not going to let some examples of corruption discourage me from making a difference.
God has planned great things for you. But you are in control of yourself, he has given you free will. If you live without regards to the law of nature, you may not attain what God has planned for you.. But as long as you are alive, IT IS NOT TOO LATE. There is still time to claim what is destined for you…
I went googling if “does everything happen for a reason or is it because of cause and effect” and I found this blog. I really needed to read this…I share your views and when u said that god is working for our greater good…I know indeed that there is definitely some good around the corner in my life… I just needed to read it to believe it. I need to have faith and be patient….
Hi Ayanna, glad this post could help remind you that God can work all things for good. 🙂
I grew up in an abusive home – my mother beat my self-esteem into the ground – she screamed, hit, and criticized me on almost a daily basis. I’m not a *better* person because of her abuse. I have a lot of problems – anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, and a very negative view of myself and my life. Still, to this day, she’s verbally and emotionally abusive. I’m perpetually single (the last christian guy I dated slapped me across the face and emotionally terrorized me into breaking up with him). I’m probably already infertile, so my chances of marriage and family are pretty much zero. And, of course, this is the ammunition my mother uses to hurt me – she knows that I can’t get married, and she uses it as proof that I’m an undesirable person.
It’s really difficult for me to believe in a loving god who wants good things for me. I recently met a guy (after almost eight years without dating anyone) who I thought was interested in me. I could tell by the way that his face lit up whenever he saw me that he liked me. I thought he was going to ask me out, but then, one day, he just lost interest in me. I feel like it was god’s plan to rub it in my face that I will NEVER be able to land a husband – as if I need more discouragement in my life. Everything in life feels like a punishment from a god who predestined my life for abuse and failure. I hate god and I want him to leave me alone.
Dear anonymous,
I can only reply briefly right now, but I don’t want you to think you’re alone! I too was raised in an abusive environment. I’m in my 50s, been a Christian since 4th or 5th grade and I am just now feeling ok about myself. So I know what you’re talking about. Hang in there and let’s email: menren77@gmail.com
Hey anonymous, it sounds like you’ve been through some truly awful circumstances. I applaud you for having the courage to be honest about how you feel and “say it out loud.”
There certainly is evil in this world, and it sounds like you’ve faced more than your fair share of it. But that is not the end of the story. Your life and story can still be a beautiful one.
I hope you’ll contact me or Mendy or Halee. I’m available to listen and encourage you.
Anonymous, I’d love to talk with you. Email me at markbyhalee@gmail.com
His promise is all things work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes. In the midst of any circumstance we can come to know God more and more … both head and heart. If He exists as revealed in the Bible then coming to know Him is the most important thing in this life and for eternity.
I do believe in the statement that “Everything happens for a reason” even if it is such a loss statement that could be used for everything from a natural disaster to forgetting to close the garage door.
I have personally been through a long spiritual ride with God. He has put me up against so many hard hearted, arrogant and selfish people it is unreal. It has caused me to lose friends, leave numerous jobs and eventually be forced to move country. Coincidentally, the country I left from was going through a moral and social crisis.
I have seen situations turn against me before my eyes and I don’t know why. Is it because I am such an important/special person in the spiritual world I don’t know. I have stayed as Christian as I can throughout these trials. Everything can happen for a reason through cause and effect. Our lives are too intertwined, overlapping and complicated that if one person causes an event to occur then another person has to face that event if you understand what I am getting at. Sometimes other people’s free will can override yours unfairly or unjustly causing a change in direction in your life.
I see God as a computer programmer or mechanic. He will set the machine or program to run on it’s own and govern the universe but he can adjust or fine tune something to cause a certain event or circumstance in a worldly sense or an individual sense to create a specific outcome or result that is inline with his will. Whatever his will is and it’s reasons beats me.
Also who his will is directed towards in a negative or positive manner is beyond me also.
Thanks for your comment, Jason. You wrote, “Sometimes other people’s free will can override yours unfairly or unjustly causing a change in direction in your life.” If that’s the case and the actions of someone else impacts you, then wouldn’t that mean that God caused it for a specific reason? Seems to me that human free will and God causing everything to happen for a reason can’t both be true.
Hey, Paul. Of course, these are conflicting arguments when how can a God create things for a specific reason and at the same time allow you to choose your path for yourself.
But how much free will do we actually have? In terms of small daily things, yes we have free will to an extent but in terms of the direction of our lives and as God sees fit for his children maybe not.
It can be possible for both to co-exist within the universe and somehow work in unison.
There are parts in the Bible when prophets, chosen people or disciples had a path set for them by God and whatever his mission or purpose was they had to go with it. No free will, no choice but follow that path.
I think you have to assume that if God created the whole universe then he must have a hand in everything. Some aspects he may leave to natural forces of the universe , some aspects may be human free will, other aspects may be Satan’s will, other aspects may be predestination but overall, everything is within his power. It is very hard to explain but I believe there are many layers and elements that control our world and different forces bring about different scenarios and outcomes.
Hi Jason, I think logic and the Bible indicate have we have complete free will to make the choices we make including the the ones that set the course for our lives. After all, God gives us the choice to love him or not (love is not love unless it’s freely given, right?) and there is no bigger decision that determines the direction of our lives than that.
I believe God has power over everything, but I don’t believe He ever forces himself on anyone (including the prophets and disciples) or on anyone’s decisions. That would be contrary to his loving nature.
Every action has a re-action or consequence. The result or “reasoning” behind lies in the decisions we make. Sometimes we can get so caught up in our lives we don’t listen or fail to hear “the voice” that otherwise we could have chose differently resulting in another outcome. I believe God is active in everyone’s lives so we may come to know Him. (Galatians 6:7) ” Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. ” If more people took responsibility for their (general) actions that they CAN control they wouldn’t have the “why me” syndrome. Let us take into account (Acts 20:9) did God intend for Eutychus to fall from the window? Only then to be revived. Did God intervene after he fell almost to his death? Or did the man just “happen” to fall asleep and why? I believe the bible gives us many examples of how things happen with a reason. Diseases (inherit) and evil spirits (bad situations) come by sin, a judgement (Isaiah 11:4) also for us to overcome, to the glory of God. (John:9) so yes in my opinion things do happen for a reason. Because God will’s it 😉
Hi Tani, I agree with everything you say about reaping what we sow and how certain situations can be influenced by different factors.
But it is difficult to tell whether God almost designed a course or a series of trials for us with many different options and paths. Almost like a maze. God knows all the paths that you could take but you are given free will and the ability to choose the right path or the wrong path. All paths will lead to him but in different circumstances. You might choose to be the perfect Christian and face persecution knowing that path is the most difficult to bear but the rewards are much greater and so is the suffering. Or take the evil path of greed and selfishness and get what you want instantly but face less suffering now but pay the price later on in life or when you die and go to hell.
I had many opportunities to do what is wrong and how easy thinks came to me whether it be money, job and friends. But as soon as I changed my path, drop all my bad friends and went down the righteous path then things became so much more harder because I was going down the lonely but less traveled path.
There are too many factors and possibilities available to really understand whether a bad situation or circumstance was, one, my fault through choosing a bad decision, two, that is the way things are suppose to be inline with God’s will/purpose, three, evil spirits intervening, four, random chance with no reasons or unfortunate circumstance, five, God’s divine intervention, six, inherent sin within ourselves or genetic issues related to our health.
These are all valid arguments to why things happen but to choose one for every bad situation or circumstance in our life is near impossible to narrow down.
My thoughts on ” Everything happens for a reason” is this : We need to remember we live in a fallen world now and Jesus teaches that alot of bad things will take place in this world and with people before his second coming. So this is a fact !
Also all of us are in a fallen state also and nothing is going to be perfect in life or with us. With that being said sometimes things happen good or bed due to our own selves and our words, thoughts, behavior , actions and beliefs. Every time we say or do anything…or don’t say or do anything it will affect the outcome of something or someone in a positive or negative way. Not too mention everyone has free will. I believe God knows what is going on with us, others and in the world …every single situation big or small…visible or invisible.God is in control of everything…and sometimes he might make or allow something bad happen..but only to bring good out of it as the end result for those who love Him and belong to Him. In my situation…My attitude and words caused my relationship to my man to be broken..God did not make this happen because I did wrong..that was my own fault !But God could have allowed it to happen to get my attention to get me on the right path ! Now I am on the right path and God is changing me and how I behave, speak and changing my attitude and thoughts..so God is using this situation to make good come of it…even though he didn’t make it happen..it was my own fault.
Also things just happen sometimes and that is just life ! Not everything goes perfectly. But God is in control of everything…he can allow it for a greater purpose or not allow it as in the story of Job. Satan sometimes is behind things directly…or sometimes through us because we are not paying close attention to our spiritual life. Sometimes we open doors in our lives by little sins the give him opportunity to come in and reek havoc.Dropping a hammer is just something that just simply happens in life sometimes.
I just know God is in control of everything..he allows it or not…he uses it to bring about good in the end for those who belong to Him. For those who do not he might allow or make bad happen just to bring them to repentance ..even this is for good though it may not seem that way to those it happens to. God is good all the time and has reason for everything he does or doesn’t do. But being that He is good all the time it is never just to be mean or cruel….God always has a good intention in mind !
Thanks Gail! I appreciate your perspective. And I’m glad to hear you recognized your role in the challenges you faced in your relationship with “your man,” you took ownership and took action to reconcile things and move forward on the right path.
And so…after reading all these comments, i concluded that believing in God causes me so much confusion..
There is so much that we will never fully understand in this life, isn’t there? 🙂
Sometimes I think we over-complicate things. But Jesus said we should have the faith of a child. We can try to understand as best we can, and then just trust in the goodness of God for the rest. 🙂
by the statement that you can see cause and effect in the small things in life would lead to the idea there is cause and effect for everything. even if we can’t always make the connections. The very fact of an otherwise ordered creation would lead to there being cause, and effect for everything. Even Einstein was quoted as saying “God does not play dice with the universe”
The tree falling in the woods makes the potential of the sound of it’s falling. weather or not there is an ear to translate the potential into what we call sound is irrelevant. My opinion is my own.
I respect your right to have yours, but this is a question I’ve pondered for many years, so couldn’t help but be drawn in.
thank you for your time
I used to believe that GOD intervenes, but I highly doubt that. First of all, where was GOD when his very own people were starved, gassed, placed in death camps and shot in WWII? 6 million Jews. Dead. Would GOD really let that happen? If there was any time in the universe for GOD to intervene, that would have been it, don’t you think? No reason for it, just like there is no reason why other evil things happen in life. They just happen because people are inheritently bad. I’ve grown to be more eccentric toward organized religion. Reality is reality and we are nothing more than biological beings motivated by biological urges (and economic ones). I think we use religion to give us hope that nothing is meaningless out of our lives. It can be good; it brings people together, and as long as those ideas don’t get twisted to motivate people to sway a certain way. If GOD exists, HE’s outside our realm of the universe.
James, I can definitely see where you are coming from. The aspects of suffering, seemingly mindless violence and people dying when completely innocent.
Yes, I do believe that human beings are biologically created to be selfish whether it be emotionally or financially. But at the same time, we still do have a choice whether to do good or bad.
I think evil and suffering exists so that we don’t become drowned in our own pompousness and lack of mortality. If God made the world perfect then when would we feel things that actually matter or see someone in pain and try to help that out of compassion and wanting to do the right thing. Perfection would create a world of wealth, selfishness and arrogance. People would see no reason to help others or be nice to others because they are fine just like them or we would live in a world where we are robots with no decisions or choices to make, have no mind of our own and get into heaven based on default because we were inherently 100% good. That would defeat the point of forgiveness, sin and mercy because they wouldn’t need to exist.
I do believe God exists to a certain extent but I feel he chooses not to intervene because it would defeat the point of life and it’s purpose. It is our journey to find out what is right/wrong, find out who you want to be and to help others selflessly.
Well, that is just my opinion.