Comments on: Are Churches Bait-and-Switching People?

By: Can Churches Sell the Sizzle Without Selling Out the Steak? « Live Intentionally

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:58:03 +0000

[...] posts on consumerism and the American Christian church. Some churches try to bring people in by appealing to their selfish desires, others expect people to “come and die” for a God they don’t even know, but maybe [...]

By: Paul

Paul — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:18:55 +0000

Chris – any time.

Margo…

>>But what’s the likelihood anyone would show up to a service if they were told, “Come to our service and give us all you have!”

That’s exactly the question I address in part 2 of this series which is now live. Thanks for the lead-in.
http://www.liveintentionally.org/2009/11/19/anti-consumerism-worst-church-outreach-strategy-ever/

By: Anti-Consumerism: Worst Church Outreach Strategy Ever? « Live Intentionally

Anti-Consumerism: Worst Church Outreach Strategy Ever? « Live Intentionally — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:04:36 +0000

[...] Are Churches Bait-and-Switching People? [...]

By: Margo Ruark

Margo Ruark — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:39:51 +0000

Corrine wrote this radical suggestion based on Scripture:
Everyone is supposed to GIVE something to the service – not get something out of it. But what’s the likelihood anyone would show up to a service if they were told, “Come to our service and give us all you have!”
I’d like to try this radical marketing approach at our center. I’m calling it “show up and give” Will let you know how it works out! Thanks Corrine!

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:05:03 +0000

“Earth for a Christ-follower should be more than heavens waiting room.”

That’s a great way of putting it. Can I borrow that sometime?

By: aaron

aaron — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:04:27 +0000

Wow, awesome post Paul! Christianity is often times taught only about what you will recieve when coming to Christ. Then when times get tough people abandon their faith because God didn’t fulfill selfish desires.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:56:43 +0000

Keith – may I offer a rebuttal to your statement?

It’s pretty clear that God is all about his glory. I think we react against that thought at first because we don’t like egotists, but the real reason that we don’t like egotists is that we all know that deep down, where it matters, we’re all the same. If a human tries to convince you that they’re better than everyone else, we all know that it’s a lie.

With God, however, it’s true. Here’s some Biblical arguments for that view:

Creation proclaims God’s glory, not ours (Psalm 19)

We were created for His glory (http://ref.ly/is43.7)

God does not share His glory (http://ref.ly/is42.8)

God forgives sins for His sake, not ours (http://ref.ly/is43.25)

He refines us for His sake (He repeats Himself here to drive the point home) (http://ref.ly/is48.10-11)

Jesus was troubled about His death, and desired to be delivered from it, but obeyed His Father’s will not first and foremost because He loved us (Yes, that IS a part of it), but to glorify His Father (http://ref.ly/jn12.27-28)

And again in Philippians – Jesus left His throne, became sin, became obedient to death on a cross, gave us righteousness, and then the Father lifted Him up so that “at the Name of Jesus, every knee should bow and every tongue confess…that Jesus Christ is Lord…” and the kicker is “…to the glory of God the Father.”

And of course, the Bible ends with Revelation, where God Himself is absolutely the center of attention, and of all History. It’s not wrong for God to put Himself at the center because He is truly worthy of it. It is, in fact, an act of love for Him to allow us to be with Him and to worship Him.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:31:48 +0000

Adam & Corinne, great comments! Very insightful!

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:29:32 +0000

Chris, I agree that’s a common view of heaven. I’ve seen several people posing the question, “If you could go to heaven where there was no suffering, no illness, no war, no sadness, but also no God, would you want to be there?” It really gets to the heart of which we love more God or our own comfort.

I’ve also seen several people writing about how we need to change our focus from what we’ve been saved from to what we’ve been saved for. Earth for a Christ-follower should be more than heavens waiting room.

By: Corinne

Corinne — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:28:33 +0000

I totally agree. If you look at the Biblical record of the first churches, you see that they GAVE all they had and disbursed the money, food and property to those who needed it. The Bible also gives an outline for a church service and it doesn’t say, “Come together once a week and we’ll sing some songs and one guy will stand up there and do all the talking.” It says, “When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.” Everyone is supposed to GIVE something to the service – not get something out of it. But what’s the likelihood anyone would show up to a service if they were told, “Come to our service and give us all you have!”

My mom has gone as far as to say the same for weddings. She told me when I was engaged and joking about eloping, my mom gave me a speech about how the wedding is not just for the couple. It is an invitation for the guests to become part of the couple’s life and support system – kind of like relationship cheerleaders, rooting for the marriage to work out. I’ve taken the role of guest at weddings very seriously ever since. Some weddings (mine included) even include the minister charging the guests with this responsibility to support the couple. These days, however, weddings are too often about the bride (not even about the couple really) and after the reception is over, the guests just go home having served their role as audience. When hard times hit in the relationship, the couple has no one to go to for advice and support.